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The Judge (2014)
The Judge (2014)
2014 | Comedy, Drama
Family dramas are nothing new for most people but for hotshot defense lawyer Hank Palmer (Robert Downey Jr.), things are about to get supremely intense following the passing of his mother. Forced to go back to the small Indiana town that he grew up in, Hank has very much become the victim of his success in Chicago. While he has material goods and a wonderful daughter, his marriage is falling apart and he returns home out of a sense of duty, eager to get away from their at his earliest opportunity. His brothers Glen and Dale (Vincent D’Ofrio and Jeremy Strong), are happy to see him but unfortunately the visit brings up old wounds between Hank and his father Judge Palmer (Robert Duvall).

The duo have a very bitter history between them and at their mothers wake things can best be described as icily civil between them. Hank looks forward to catching the early flight out in the morning eager to put the town behind him forever when early the next morning their lives take a change when the judges prize Cadillac is discovered to have damage consistent from a collision.

These feisty and defiant judge claims he hit nothing and he maintains this stance even when the police show up and he is suspected of vehicular homicide. Further compounding the case is that the victim was known to the judge and had been recently released after being sentenced for murder. The fact that the two individuals had a prior and bitter history with one another makes the judge a prime candidate for vehicular homicide.

Despite his best wishes and in defiance of his father, Hank decides to represent his father and pending trial as he clearly sees that his father’s representative (Dax Sheppard), is no match for the hotshot prosecutor (Billy Bob Thornton), that is been brought in to prosecute the judge. In what can best be described as a hate/hate relationship Hank is supremely conflicted but wants to do right by his father.

Further complicating matters is the emergence of his old high school girlfriend Samantha (Vera Farmiga), who causes Hank to revisit childhood memories both painful and pleasant. Along the way new discoveries are made that causes Hank to reevaluate his father as well as his life and family and take stock of his priorities.

The film has some funny and tender moments in between the courtroom proceedings which at times our little incredulous yet always captivating.

The cast is first-rate specifically Downey Jr. and Duvall who do Oscar quality work in their roles. While some may be quick to dismiss the film is courtroom procedural, I found “The Judge” to be a very interesting and engaging human drama about very real characters and their all too relatable clauses human beings. These are not Teflon superheroes but rather real flesh and blood people confronted with problems and emotions that people in the audience should be able to rate late to even if they had not experienced them first-hand.

The supporting cast was fantastic and the pacing of the film helped to move things along despite the nearly two-hour runtime. The film is rated R due to some very intense moments and conversations between the characters but stands out as one of the more memorable and enjoyable films of 2014 .

http://sknr.net/2014/10/10/judge/
  
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Final Challenge
Final Challenge
2021 | Card Game, Humor, Party Game
Have you got some stiffs in your gaming group? Do you introduce lots of new gamers to the hobby? Are you looking to get up off the table every once in a while and just play something wacky? Well, I may have the answer for you here. I am a natural performer, so many things do not affect me, and I do not have performance anxiety AT ALL. But what if you have a table with a bunch of people who do not really know each other? What do you pull out then? I might suggest you keep reading.

Final Challenge is a crazy party game for up to six players. In it, players are attempting to earn cards from different categories in order to place themselves in the Final Challenge round where they will attempt to compete for all the marbles.

DISCLAIMER: We were provided a prototype copy of this game for the purposes of this review. These are preview copy components, and I do not know for sure if the final components will be any different from these shown. Also, it is not my intention to detail every rule in the game, as there are just too many. You are invited to download the rulebook, back the game through the Kickstarter campaign coming October 2021, or through any retailers stocking it after fulfillment. -T


To setup, shuffle all the cards in the game (in this prototype version I was given a smattering of each type of card, including several from planned expansions) and make a large draw pile. Place the timer nearby and give each player a player board and reminder card. Determine the first player and the game may begin!
On a turn, the active player will check their board to see if they have any active challenges. These are challenge cards that have specific timing applied in order to complete. Completed challenges are either placed face-down on their board or discarded. Next, the active player draws the top card from the deck and has three choices: Perform the Challenge, Ask for Volunteers, or Attack Another Player.

The active player will most often prefer to Perform the Challenge by reading the card’s challenge aloud and attempting to satisfy the requirement. Other players at the table are the judges in determining if the attempt is successful or not. If so, the challenge is placed face-down on the player’s board. If unsuccessful, the card is discarded. As this is the only way to progress in the game, it is usually the best bet on a turn.

However, the player may not wish the complete the challenge and can Ask for Volunteers to help perform the challenge. Whomever accepts and completes will win the card and be able to place it in front of themselves for a quick extra boost of completed challenges.

Should the active player not wish to complete the challenge drawn, and to Attack Another Player, they may assign the challenge to another player who already has completed a challenge of the same type previously. This offers some benefit to the assigned player, as they may collect another card of a similar type, and forces them the complete the challenge card instead of the active player. Should the attacked player lose, however, they lose not only the attacking card, but the face-down card they have previously completed!

Once a player has locked (earned completed face-down cards) one challenge card of each type, they have unlocked the Final Challenge. On the back of each challenge card is one word. When placed on the player board the words will spell out a ridiculous prompt that the active player will need to perform in order to win the Final Challenge. In the example photo below, the prompt is: Mischievous Cavegirl Uses Force On Someone’s Ear While Moaning Loudly. Therefore, in order to win this Final Challenge, the active player will need to exemplify this prompt to the satisfaction of the other players/judges. Think about how you would complete this one.


After a successful Final Challenge, the winner collects the red Personality card to add to their winnings. On the backs of red cards are abilities that are now in effect for the rest of the game. The winner is the player who collects two red cards. The rules indicate any stopping point that is agreed upon by the players is acceptable, but they suggest just to two.
Components. Again, this is a prototype copy of this game, and I do not know which, if any, components will be different in the final version. That said, what I received was a box of cards, player boards, reminder cards, and a sand timer. Also included were card dividers, which confused me since the cards are to be shuffled for play. I like the direction the game is going, especially with regards to aesthetics. In a crazy over-saturated niche of party games, Final Challenge is trying to be a little different. The art is quirky, and that is definitely not a bad thing here. All the text is easily legible and the sand timer… works. It is fine as is, but I am sure that a successful Kickstarter will improve all the components in the game.

I am definitely not a party game kind of guy. My wife always makes fun of me when I groan at them, like I am some board game snob. And maybe I guess I really am. I know how I would like to spend my gaming time, and usually it is not with a party game. That said, Final Challenge does offer something a little different by having each card present a challenge that could be storytelling, actions, impersonations, and all kinds of cuckoo… but I like it. Now, I think every game has its place, and for me and my typical game groups, this would be a great one to pull out when I introduce fresh gamers into the hobby, or as something to completely break the ice/tension. As long as all players understand that they may need to get out of their comfort zones to have a good time with it, Final Challenge can be that entry into the hobby for some.

My highest-rated party game to this point is Happy Salmon, and I use it for silliness between heavier games, or to help re-energize my players. It works wonders, and I love it for that. I don’t think Final Challenge will replace Happy Salmon for me for its purpose, but I definitely can see instances when I would need something with just a little more meat on its bones, but still in the ridiculous category. So if you are in need of a weird, quick, zany, little card game (with origins in Serbia – how many Serbian games do you have?) then check out Final Challenge, coming to Kickstarter in October.

For those more raunchy gamers, I have some insight for you as well. I said earlier that Kerber was kind enough to pepper this copy with a few cards from expansions as well, and one of them is the “Rated R Expansion.” I won’t give you exact examples of cards from that set, but just as a levels-check, two cards I pulled from the normal deck has this text on the front, “You have ended up in a talent show. Tell a joke. If no one laughs, you lose.” On the back of this it says, “Their Nipples.” Another example from the core set is, “Someone in this group just got immensely attractive. Point that person out by casually looking at them in a seductive manner until your next draw.” On the back? It says, “While Praying.” Soooooooo, the fronts and backs don’t necessarily have anything to do with each other… but they could. Enjoy the game, everyone!
  
Roe v. Wade (2021)
Roe v. Wade (2021)
2021 | Drama, History
5
5.0 (1 Ratings)
Movie Rating
Tough subject matter taken head on (1 more)
'Old-pros' Voight, Davi and Guttenberg turn up
The script is clunky and unconvincing (1 more)
Some of the supporting acting roles are ropey
A controversial look at the Supreme Court legalisation of abortion in 1973
Roe v Wade was a controversial vote by the US Supreme Court in 1973 over whether abortion should be legalized across the US, following its earlier legalization in New York state.

Following an early personal tragedy, Dr. Bernard Nathanson (Nick Loeb) is a leading abortion advocate, making a tidy living by performing abortions in New York. Together with writer and journalist Larry Lader (Jamie Kennedy) the pair lobby for the "Right to Choose": to legalize abortion across the country. They 'recruit' Norma McCorvey (Summer Joy Campbell), under the pseudonym of Jane Roe, to headline their case.

Against them are the 'Pro-Life' lobby headed by Dr. Mildred Jefferson (Stacey Nash) with Henry Wade (James DuMont), the district attorney for Dallas County, being the opposing plaintiff.

Positives:
- It's a brave team that put a movie together about such an emotionally charged subject, and Nick Loeb and crew should be congratulated for being brave enough to do so.
- As in "The Trial of the Chicago 7", this was subject matter from the era from the US 1960/1970's that I was completely unaware of, so I didn't know where the movie might go (no spoilers here).
- The movie plays its cards pretty close to its chest for most of the running time as regards whose 'side' it is on: pro-Life or pro-Choice. You see each team working their own corner, and the facts for and against are provided to the viewer (which Nick Loeb asserts have been thoroughly fact checked).
- The film comes to life most in some of the legal debates between Professor Robert Byrn (Joey Lawrence) and his students. These were the scenes which I enjoyed most, and Lawrence delivers one of the better acting performances in the movie.
- There's fun in seeing a lot of 'old pros' appearing in cameos as the supreme court judges: Jon Voight ("Mission Impossible"); Bond villain Robert Davi ("Licence to Kill"); Corbin Bernsen ("LA Law") and Steve Guttenberg ("3 Men and a Baby").

Negatives:
- There's no polite way to say this, but as a relatively low-budget movie, some of the supporting performances are on the decidedly ropy side.
- I wanted to see more of the legal debate between the members of the Supreme court.... but I suspect the shooting time available with these 'big name' actors was limited. That's a shame.
- This is not a "Trial of the Chicago 7", and the script is NOT by Aaron Sorkin. It generally lacks polish. And there is way too much "Oh, hello <<Insert full title and name of character here>>" which is distractingly unnatural (just use sub-titles!).
- Those familiar with my blog will know of my UTTER HATRED of voiceovers in movies! This is deployed throughout (by Nick Loeb) and irritated me enormously. More "Show".... less "Tell"!
- The movie doesn't know when to quit. There is a natural and dramatic "end point" to the story. But the movie tacks on multiple 'epilogue' scenes. Some of these are interesting and informative, showing broadcasts of the 'real-life' participants. Others are superfluous, and lessen the overall impact of the message. IMHO, it would have been better to end at the natural end-point of the story, then 'do a "Sully"' by dropping the real life photos and interviews as insets into the end-titles.

I'll sometimes put 'warnings' for sensitive viewers into my reviews. As the subject matter is abortion, then this may naturally self-deselect certain viewers. But to be clear, the movie does 'go there' in two short, almost subliminal, scenes that will almost certainly upset any parents that have been through any form of pre-natal loss. Watcher beware.

(For my full graphical review, please check out One Mann's Movies review here - https://bob-the-movie-man.com/2021/03/24/roe-v-wade-theres-a-fortune-in-abortion/. Thanks.)
  
Dredd (2012)
Dredd (2012)
2012 | Action, Sci-Fi
The mid 90’s was a strange time for movies. Sure, there were quite a few remembered fondly (just like with any era) but there were also many movies that are forgotten due to their ridiculousness. It was a time that gave us the style of adaptions on par with Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection, or the two Joel Schumacher Batman films. Likewise, there was a Judge Dredd film right in the middle of that time period.

It was a mess. It exemplified everything wrong with many adaptions in the 90’s. Big name actors, over-the-top designs, cheesy dialogue. It tried very hard to be akin to the original Total Recall but instead succeeded at only being a movie fun to laugh at. It featured Sylvester Stallone and Rob Schneider. That is all that needs to be said about that film. So, when Hollywood comes along and decides to make a new adaption, of course the original’s ridiculousness looms over the whole affair. Not helping is the fact that most of the cast and crew are relatively obscure, and its source material (the Judge Dredd comics) is not as well-known as most of Marvel’s or DC’s pantheon. Yet, this brand new adaption, Dredd 3D, soars much higher than the original and manages to be one of those well-hidden gems of Fall 2012. I don’t imagine this film breaking box office records, but it is a wholly worthwhile piece of screen entertainment, even if it has some notable flaws and is overshadowed by past outings in the franchise.

The future America is an irradiated waste land known as the Cursed Earth. On the east coast of North America lies Mega-City One, a vast, violent metropolis containing 800 million residents, where 17,000 crimes are reported daily and “Slo-Mo”, an addictive new drug that slows the user’s perception of time, has been introduced. The only force of order is the Judges, who act as police, judge, jury and executioner. Judge Dredd (Karl Urban) is tasked by the Chief Judge (Rakie Ayola) with evaluating rookie Judge Cassandra Anderson (Olivia Thirlby), a psychic who has failed the tests to become a full Judge. They become involved in a raid upon a crime and Slo-Mo ridden apartment complex known as Peach-Trees, which is ruled by a vicious crime boss Ma-Ma (Lena Heady).

You can guess from the title that the movie is meant to be watched in 3D. But that is where personal opinions of 3D come into play. For me personally, I cannot ding the film’s use of 3D because it uses it well enough that it becomes unnoticeable, which is to say it does not obnoxiously remind you at all times it is meant to be watched in 3D by throwing random things at the camera. But I will say that, although somewhat gimmicky, the “Slo-Mo” segments (which are shot from the perspective of those on the mind-altering drug ‘Slo-Mo’) do use 3D very well and manage to be some of the most visually striking and beautiful shots in the entire film.

The plot is simple to understand and straight forward. There are not huge twists and turns, and manages to be tightly written. It is not extremely memorable for plot standards, but it does not need to be. The story is held up by focusing on three major characters, which some good additional characterization of two more side characters. In that sense, the plot and characters do not pop off the screen into greatness, yet they are still tightly written enough that both elements (plot and characters) are not muddled or confusing. The simple plot, and the fact it all takes place in one apartment complex, makes it easier to focus on action and visuals.

While the visuals are all extremely well-done, the action could use some work. The setting of Mega-City One is extremely well established, as opposed to the original Judge Dredd adaption. It seems like it could be a real place not far off in the future, as it is set up with a realistic visual design – just with added grittiness and subtle science fictional elements. Also, there is not a huge amount of CG and the Judge uniforms especially look like iconic yet possibly realistic futuristic police suits. But the action could use some work, as stated. I could not help but constantly compare it to the recently released film, “The Raid: Redeption”, the Indonesian martial arts police film centering on a single police raid on an apartment complex. The similarities are there.

Both movies have very similar locations and plots, but the difference is that while Dredd has more interesting setting and science fiction elements (and arguably more interesting characters), The Raid: Redemption’s action is far more entertaining and engrossing. The real problem with Dredd is that there are never any real amazing feats of heroics on part of Judge Dredd. They set up the film in a sort of “’Die Hard’ in the future vibe” but that requires the hero to barely overcome overwhelming odds. As it stands, it never really feels like Judge Dredd is in a ton of danger. There are some cool shooting moments, and some even more interesting usage of Judge Anderson’s psychic powers. But at the end of the day, there simply are not many memorable action moments.

Overall, it does not ruin the film at all. It still manages to be an entertaining and interesting movie regardless of memorable action sequences. It has a tightly plotted narrative with fairly well done characters, not muddled by overuse of complexity or plot twists. It manages to be visually excellent with interesting science fictional elements, but never does it soar with its action set-pieces. It would have benefitted with some better use of gunplay or more clever feats of heroics on Judge Dredd’s part. But at least it takes itself seriously enough to not have anything akin to Rob Schneider following Sylvester Stallone around in a cheesy script.
  
Vamp on the Batwalk
Vamp on the Batwalk
2021 | Card Game
I think I could be a vampire. Not that I THINK I’m a vampire, but I think I could live(?) with being a vamp. Not the sparkly kind. Just the normal kind. Or maybe the “What We Do in the Shadows” kind. Yeah. At least initially I don’t think I would care much about being the most fashionable vampire in the group, but I could see why some of the elder vampires would need SOMETHING over which to compete and obsess. Maybe I could be one of the judges.

Vamp on the Batwalk has players take on the personalities of one of these fashionable elder vampires competing in the latest fashion show. The only problem is that vampires are unable to see themselves in mirrors, so they cannot really assure themselves that they look marvelous; the other vampires will have that privilege. Which vampire can win the most fashion shows this year with limited knowledge of how they look? Who would… stake… their reputation on mere fashion shows anyway?

DISCLAIMER: We were provided a copy of this game for the purposes of this review. This is a retail copy of the game, so what you see in these photos is exactly what would be received in your box. I do not intend to cover every single rule included in the rulebook, but will describe the overall game flow and major rule set so that our readers may get a sense of how the game plays. For more in depth rules, you may purchase a copy online or from your FLGS. -T


To setup invert the bottom of the box and insert it into the back of the box top lid to create a runway. A “batwalk,” if you will. Each player will choose a vampire and place their standee on the batwalk Start space. They will also take the matching Reference Card. All Vamp Cards matching the vamps in play are collected, shuffled together, and five are dealt to each player. Whichever player is most fashionable goes first and the game may begin!
Vamp on the Batwalk is a trick-taking game where players know not which cards they hold. Instead, their hands are facing all other players in order to suss out which cards they may be holding. The first player will open the game by playing any card from their hand. The next player also will play any card they wish, and so on until all players have played a card.

Once each card is played the “lead” card may be switched depending on the rules of the game. Should all cards played be of the same suit the highest card played is the lead card and wins the trick. Similarly, if the first card played remains the highest card in that suit and no other cards played earn the lead card status, that highest card wins the trick.

However, when a card is played that is the same value (a three played on a three of a different suit) the newest card with the matching value “Steals the Show” and becomes the new lead card. Some cards feature a star for the value. These star cards will always take the lead unless a garlic card has been played to trump the star. Garlic cards typically are the lowest-ranking suit, but when played in the same hand as a star become the trump suit.


Luckily, the reference cards have handy reminders for these special rules. After all cards from the hand have been played, players check who is winning the fashion show based on points earned during the round. If this is the end of the third round the vamp with the most points wins! If not, the player to the left of the most recent first player then becomes the first player for the next round.
Components. This game features an ingenious scoreboard that is just so fun to use. Having the box double as the scoreboard runway was such a great decision and it works flawlessly. The cards are all large tarot-sized (I think, I’m no tarot-master) and feature some really great art. The player standees are fine, but only four or so can actually fit on a space on the runway without creating a mess. All in all I adore the components and art style here.

Now, several games also employ this mechanic of holding your hand of cards outward for opponents to see, but here the players never really are told which cards they hold. In Vamp on the Batwalk the card play is silly and mostly a guessing game, at least in my head. One can never truly know all the cards they hold because each round not all cards are used. This adds another layer of difficulty in trying to guess what you are holding. This may turn off certain gamers, but it’s a silly way to play the game and I love it.

At the end of the day, this is a game about vampires putting on a fashion show. I feel like once I decided not to take it so seriously I began enjoying it so much more. Sometimes it’s a surprise to win a trick with a 2 of garlic. A throwaway card usually can win if a star is played. Or thinking you have THE card to win the trick only to have someone else Steal the Show and beat you out. It’s just chaotic silliness and I’m smitten.

If you are at all anything like me and can put aside the need to win at all times and at all costs, you will enjoy this one. It is wacky, has an amazing theme and excellent components, and is just a fun game to relax with or to help recharge after a brain burning sesh. Purple Phoenix Games gives this one a blood-slurping 8 / 12. Even though I think the blue vamp is eerily similar to Travis McElroy, the almost-coolest-Travis, this one is a hit for me. Go grab it if you like fun games that don’t tax the brain a whole lot.
  
Toni Erdmann (2016)
Toni Erdmann (2016)
2016 | Comedy, Drama
Well Now! *over exaggerated sigh of relief* After my first movie review of the year it is a suspicious coincidence as well as a welcome relief, that I have the incredibly good fortune to bring you the review of a movie that is not only good but it’s original, sometimes confusing, weird, downright funny, and German. Hey, sometimes when you are disappointed with a domestic film it’s best to look at a foreign film. That ‘strategy’ applies to any movie viewer in any country I can assure you. Today’s film for your consideration is already making waves and winning awards in Germany, Europe, and around the world. It’s making such a significant fuss that as of February 7th, its confirmed that Jack Nicholson is coming out of self-imposed retirement to portray the lead in an American remake of the movie!

‘Toni Erdmann’ is an Austrian-German dramatic comedy written, directed, and co-produced by Maren Abe. The film stars famed Austrian actor Peter Simonischek as Winfried Conradi (the character was based on the directors father a purported prankster) a divorced music teacher and father whose considered by his family, friends, and students to be a hippie. He has the reputation of being a prankster and is notorious for playing practical jokes. He is estranged from his daughter Ines (Sandra Huller). An ambitious business woman working for a company in Romania. They rarely speak except for family gatherings at which Ines is usually on her phone conducting business and actually spends little time with the family. Her father in particular. The only friendship Winfried has is with his blind and deaf dog. One night, after a family gathering and paying a visit to his mother, Winfried falls asleep in his front yard only to wake up and find that his beloved dog has passed away during the night. Feeling lost and dwelling on the past, he travels to Bucharest where his daughter currently consults for an oil company. He finds the office complex where she is based and waits in the lobby for several hours. Finally, he catches a glimpse of Ines walking through the lobby with several board members of her client’s company and sneaks up behind them wearing sunglasses and his trademarked fake teeth while pretending to read a newspaper. Ines notices but completely ignores Winfried. Despite the failure of his practical joke, Ines contacts her father and invites him to a reception at the American embassy in Bucharest where they have a chance encounter with the CEO of a German oil company Mr. Henneberg with whom Ines has been desperately trying arrange business dealings with. While paying little attention to Ines, ironically Henneberg begins a conversation with Winfried in which he casually and jokingly mentioned that he has hired a replacement daughter because Ines is always so busy. Much to the surprise of both, Henneberg invites Ines and her father to join him and his entourage for drinks at a trendy bar where he continues to brush off Ines but only after sharing Winfried’s joke with his colleagues.

Ines is so absorbed in her work she seems to only tolerate her father’s presence and after a few days, Winfried decides to leave feeling alienated as though he’s getting in the way of his daughter’s life. A few days later, Ines and two of her friends are out having drinks when Winfried appears at the bar. Wearing a wig and his trademark false teeth he chimes in on the conversation between his daughter and her friends and comically introduces himself as ‘Toni Erdmann’ a consultant and life coach. Ines two friends continue to converse with him trying their best not to laugh while Winfried continues to ‘enhance’ his character much to the dismay of Ines.

Meanwhile, Ines day-to-Day work routine becomes more frustrating as she seems to be going nowhere with her career despite her best efforts. Becoming almost amused with her father’s character, Ines decides to play along with the character and even invites ‘Erdmann’ to spend time with her at work and with her friends and later even to a business meeting. Strangely enough, the ‘Erdmann’ character created by her father has become a strange and hilarious means of bonding with her father leading to one misadventure after another in which she decides she no longer cares about her current state of being and proceeds to alienate her boss and her colleagues and a way that’s reminiscent of her father’s ‘prankster tendencies’.

This film did not disappoint. It’s funny, it’s shocking, it’s awkward at some points. Most importantly, it’s original. It flys in the face of routine and redundancy and like many great films implies that in the end, the most important thing is family. When worse comes to worse family might not always get you out of trouble but they will certainly provide the catalyst for an escape from the hum drum of whatever is eating at your life.

‘Toni Erdmann’ has already been nominated for ‘Best Film Of The Year’ by critics in several countries including France and England. It premiered at the Cannes film festival last year in the ‘Un Certain Regard’ category of the film festival but the night before its premiere, the judges and critics gave it such praise it was immediately added to the more prestigious ‘Palme d’Or’ category and went on to receive high praise at its premiere. It has already won 20 awards in serval countries with many more awards pending. I’m calling this film 4 out of 5 stars. The film clocks in at 162 minutes. A bit long on the tooth for running time but DO NOT let that discourage you from seeing the film. Do yourself a favor and check out ‘Toni Erdmann’ now and see the original in all it’s hilarious glory. As I mentioned earlier, it’s been confirmed that Jack Nicholson is coming out of retirement to portray the lead in the American remake. This film is totally something you would’ve seen Mr. Nicholson doing early in his career back when he was just getting started as an actor. Even with this in mind someone somewhere along the line could still screw it up.